33 replies to this topic

[LStevens]

Jane, I had to laugh. Quite the visual

Oddly enough, I have always used the phrase "go hurry up" as the cue. I, too, would stand outside with them (umbrella in hand, if need be), and keep repeating, "go hurry up." When they did - finally - I would have some small dog biscuits with me, and lavished praise on them. Seemed to work quite well. Even Betty and Grindle get the drift and head for the pet door, and on outside to do their business.

I think it just takes time - small consolation there, I know. Hang in there. I'm with you, Stef. Thank goodness for hardwood/tile floors. I ripped all the carpeting out years ago. Much less stressful for the human

Good luck.


Linda

[Heather M]

Stef, I am pretty against having anyone's nose put in poop. I think that used to be an accepted method but is considered outdated now. It might teach him to hide when he's pooping but it won't teach him that he needs to poop outside. It might be that you will need to keep him crated more until things get under control. Having him learn a command will help a lot too. When you take him out, as he is pooping tell him "poop" or whatever you feel comfortable calling it, and give him lots of praise. With consistancy and time he'll get it . He's a smart dog.

We have had some problems with housebreaking Sanja too. She did great when we first got her because we kept such a close eye on her while she was in the house then went out with her in the pen to make sure that she did pee and poop. Later, we didn't always go out with her and she was so distracted by the sounds and smells that she forgot what she was out there for and would come inside a pee right away! We took a couple steps back and started going out to the pen with her and reminding her what she is out there for.

Isa is fine on her own, but Sanja and Tess are always crated when alone and at night. The dogs are not allowed on the second floor and I have to confine Tess if I will be up there more than a minute! She will always find trouble!

[Stef]

Stef,? I am pretty against having anyone's nose put in poop.? I think that used to be an accepted method but is considered outdated now.? It might teach him to hide when he's pooping but it won't teach him that he needs to poop outside.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heather!

Thanks for the note. Everything I have read is against the nose-to-poop thing and I know it was done forever but I hadn't got to that point ... I did feel pretty silly saying "No" to a mess on the floor though. I read in the book Culture Clash that they don't associate unless you catch them. So there's no point in getting upset if you didn't catch them in the act...

I am watching him a little closer and he's not allowed out of eyesight until I know that he's "empty". Wes goes 2x a day. Tux has a different schedule and I'll just have to figure it out. (Probably because he's younger too.)

I found it very strange that he would do one and not the other. I'm working on them actually "ringing" the bell before I open doors. So we get ready, leashes on, then they have to make a noise with the bells before "open sesame".

Thanks again all for your help and support. I'm just glad it's not just me and that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks again!
Stef

Oh! And thanks to all for the "command" - we're now using "hurry up" for his business. I feel a lot less silly saying that than anything else.

[mihalik1413]

Heather!

Thanks for the note.  Everything I have read is against the nose-to-poop thing and I know it was done forever but I hadn't got to that point ...      I did feel pretty silly saying "No" to a mess on the floor though.    I read in the book Culture Clash that they don't associate unless you catch them.  So there's no point in getting upset if you didn't catch them in the act...

I am watching him a little closer and he's not allowed out of eyesight until I know that he's "empty".  Wes goes 2x a day.  Tux has a different schedule and I'll just have to figure it out.  (Probably because he's younger too.) 

I found it very strange that he would do one and not the other.    I'm working on them actually "ringing" the bell before I open doors.  So we get ready, leashes on, then they have to make a noise with the bells before "open sesame". 

Thanks again all for your help and support.  I'm just glad it's not just me and that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks again!
Stef

Oh!  And thanks to all for the "command" - we're now using "hurry up" for his business.    I feel a lot less silly saying that than anything else. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most dogs are smart enough to understand whether you catch them or not in the act. I beg to differ with the book you read and Heather, as I have stated I have potty trained 19 of my own dogs and pups and have helped many friends through talking like this and training classes.
Now back to catching them in the act or not. When you do find something that they actually did that is wrong and acknowledge it, in what ever way you decide, if they understand, then their ears, tail and head drop. (Remember, I do a lot of talking to my dogs so they understand much of what I say). Next when putting a dogs face in/near their poop or pee there shouldn't be silence, you should be telling them No sternly and letting them know that is to be done outside. I usually say something like "Awww poop in the house.... You poop outside!" It can be followed many things such as a spank on the hip, taking him/her out and even taking the poop out with them or even some cage/crate time. There are many many options. Pick one stick and stick with it. After a while if one method doesn't work try another.
As I have stated before, I used the crate and a very tight schedule on Mackey, eating, outside, and crate time was consistent for weeks (even weekends) untill we started giving more trust/freedom to him (my wife was almost ready to hit me over the head on the weekends as we left him in the cage during our normal working hours, she use to get mad and want to play with him, I use to say: "You will thank me later for this."). Anyway, he was really really easy and now we have a new pup and she is starting to realize why I did this with him. Unfortunately Lexi is going to be a bit of a challenge as she is slightly behind as we got her a little late in the game. She is smart enough to not go in her cage but has had a few accidents in the house. She is going to just require a little more attention/training.
Don't get discuraged just stick to your guns. Pick a method and stick to it. I firmly believe that repetition is the key to getting control of problems like this. Dogs are just like kids, I think some maybe slightly smarter!

Again good luck,
Larry

[Heather M]

Stef,

Culture Clash is a good book. Another one, more specific to dogs and that has been recommended on this site by others is Patricia McConnell's "The Other End of the Leash" She is a Prof. of zoology and an animal behavioralist. I tend to do an awlful lot of reading and trying out of various techniques in attempt to find the optimal ones (that both solve the problem and feel right to me). Good Luck!

[brownsmom]

Jane, I had to laugh.  Quite the visual


I think it just takes time  - small consolation there, I know.  Hang in there.  I'm with you, Stef.  Thank goodness for hardwood/tile floors.  I ripped all the carpeting out years ago.  Much less stressful for the human

Good luck.
Linda

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just got rid of my carpet - it was too much work! Too funny. No, our lives don't revolve around the dogs.....

[Stef]

I just got rid of my carpet - it was too much work!  Too funny.  No, our lives don't revolve around the dogs.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We bought a house so Wes would have a yard...

[Jennymay]

Stef..
I didn't mean to literally PUT the dogs' nose in it. And, I've had to use this method, but you put the dogs VERY close to it, NOT in it, then tell them, "OUTSIDE!" And when you put them outside, you repeat the word. Hey, if I have a problem with my dogs, I'll try ANY advice to try to rid the problem, and that means that they may have to sniff their own poop, NOT Have it dropping off their noses, then so be it. I'd rather have a dog that may have to be uncomfortable for a moment by a stench from themselves, then have the problem never go away.
~Jen~

[Heather M]

Stef,

Culture Clash is a good book.  Another one, more specific to dogs and that has been recommended on this site by others is Patricia McConnell's "The Other End of the Leash"  She is a Prof. of zoology and an animal behavioralist.  I tend to do an awlful lot of reading and trying out of various techniques in attempt to find the optimal ones (that both solve the problem and feel right to me).  Good Luck! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OOps, when I said" The Other End of the Leash" was more specific to dogs than "Culture Clash", I was confusing "Culture Clash" with "Don't Shoot the Dog!" (another good book!)

[brownsmom]

We bought a house so Wes would have a yard...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anything so the babies are happy!

[Stef]

Stef..
I didn't mean to literally PUT the dogs' nose in it.  And, I've had to use this method, but you put the dogs VERY close to it, NOT in it, then tell them, "OUTSIDE!"  And when you put them outside, you repeat the word.  Hey, if I have a problem with my dogs, I'll try ANY advice to try to rid the problem, and that means that they may have to sniff their own poop, NOT Have it dropping off their noses, then so be it.  I'd rather have a dog that may have to be uncomfortable for a moment by a stench from themselves, then have the problem never go away.
~Jen~

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jen,

That's kind of what I did with the "No!". I caught him in the act, then turned him to look at it, said "No!" and then we went outside.

I understand that sometimes you have to try things until you find something that works. I truly appreciate all the advice and the ideas. I didn't mean to offend or upset anyone. We have to do what works for us.

Thanks!

[larissa]

Dogs are just like kids, I thinks some maybe slightly smarter! 
Larry

Thats an insult to us kids! I agree with my mom (Heather M). I personally will side with all of the experts who have Ph D. s and wrote all of those books. How (if you had kids) would you train your kids? I don't think sticking a babies nose in his dirty diaper will really get the message across!

[Jennymay]

Stef,
No offense taken!
I was just saying, some things work for some dogs, and some things don't. I have never STUCK a dogs nose RIGHT into it....just let him get a sniff, tell them that's for outside, and out we go...until they get the drift....
It's hard when you have a dog that's trained, knows all the commands, all the signs/signals, and then you get a puppy or a dog that needs to be taught everything, and you forget how hard it can be!!! Patience is a virtue, that's for sure!
I'm sure Tux will pick up sooner or later. I wish you the best of luck in getting over this training stopper!!
~Jen~

[mihalik1413]

How (if you had kids) would you train your kids? I don't think sticking a babies nose in his dirty diaper will really get the message across!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

However I deem fit, I don't need nor do I ask anyone for advise on how to raise my kids. I can tell you that I won't be raising a bunch of lazy cry baby brats much like most of todays society is raising and if spanking is needed then so be it. I was spanked while I was growing up and my kids will be too, of course only if they need to be. Also comparing the raising of kids and dogs aren't exactly apples and apples they're more like apples and oranges.
Just like Jenny said, I too have tried many things as well and some things work for some dogs and some things don't. Everyone has their opinions and I can agree to disagree with you. As I have already stated, I have potty trained almost 20 of my own dogs, yes I'm old (36) enough to have had that many, and I have used almost every way possible. If you ever have the chance to see my lastest dog, you would be impressed, very impressed. Potty trained in well under 3 weeks and was completely unchallenged in learning all of his commands, aside from the finishing command, really in no time at all. Smarter then many kids? Well, out of the gate yes he is by far, no comparision.
A professional trainer (with whom we ended up being friends with) had the chance of watching our Mackey grow up and had expressed her disagreement with some of my beliefs but when she seen the results she never questioned my actions again and even asked for advise from me in helping with some of the others in class on behavioral problems.
In closing, Jenny and I aren't saying one way is right or the other. We also aren't taking anyones sides, we are simply just stating what has worked for us in the past when drastic measures were needed. We are in simple agreement that whatever way you decide that you stick to your guns. If that fails then it is time for a change in methods (one of them may include the face in/close to the accident method). Just like kids every dog is different and needs different attention and many (not all), of the behavioral problems are a direct result of the owners.

PS. I can't wait till you encounter your first Alpha dog. You will be challenged to the max on everything. Then come back and tell me how your reward system works when he/she takes your treat then does exactly what you were training them not to do then shows no remorse and no gains in any of the methods you try.

Well I'm spent on this, have a good night all!
Larry