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#1 Stacie

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 06:27 AM

I have to say - we bought halti's for Magnum and Lilo the other day - mostly for Lilo because she just wasn't getting the idea of how to walk w/o pulling with the choke collar- at least for the first few minutes of the walk - and because I would love to take both of them at the same time and they are just ridiculous together. Well, on went the halti last night - Magnum freaked out so I took his off and put Lilo's on and out the door Lilo and I went. It took her 3 times of trying to pull and having a freak out over the muzzle being restrained (my neighbors must have thought she was having a seizure by the way she was acting) - I would grab her by the collar to stop her and off we would go again - what a miracle. She walked loose leash by side the rest of the walk! Magnum was upset because I took her and not him so after a few minutes of whinning he slipped into his for Jared and out he came to join us. They both walked like angels. Magnum has always been a good walker alone but now they can both go. I love these halt's and highly recommend them. It is going to take a few more walks before they fully get used to them w/o having the occasional freak out when it pulls tight on the muzzle but def. well worth it.
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#2 jmnodwell

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 07:33 AM

Bella has a gentle leader because she is strong enough to pull me off my feet when she gets going... It has cut down alot on her pulling. The only caution I will give is to remember that you don't have to yank/jerk on the leash like you would with a choke collar. They will correct themselves...

With the common occurrence of Wobblers you don't want to put any extra pressure on that precious Doberman neck... and tugging on the leash and whipping their heads around could do that...

Bella goes nowhere without hers!!! I can sometimes take it off while we are walking but if she gets out of control, back on it goes... She knows when she's crossed the line and will look at me, sigh, and then stand there while I put it back on... LOL

As far as the freak outs, let them wear it for short periods in the house, under supervision. Many dogs do not like the sensation around their muzzles and have to be de-sensitized to the feeling...

Edited by jmnodwell, 12 June 2008 - 07:35 AM.

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#3 Stacie

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:05 AM

I have been putting it on for short periods in the house prior. Last night was the first walk. And I know I don't have to pull - they do it themselves when they decide to pull. Whenever Lilo would start to freak out I would grab her regular collar to get her attention and calm her down - she would stop the thrashing about instantly and off we would go. It only took her three or four times of trying to pull away before she realized that she would be fine as long as she walked like a lady next to me. I have never liked choke collars and in the boxer rescue contract we have for adopters it states that they are to never use a choke collar on the adopted dog or they will have to give the dog back and lose their money. I am also lucky to have a professional trainer to help whenever needed. Dory is awesome and has been such a big help with Lilo as far as getting her to trust men and not be afraid of them. Now she is helping with the loud noises - i.e. - I have an idiot neighbor who purchases really big fireworks (like the ones they do at professional displays) who seems to think it's ok to let them off at random times of the day and night all year long. So far, that is the only thing that really scares her - but I can't blame her - it comes at times you least expect it and the noise kind of shocks you. I know I have jumped many times - especially at 3 am on a Tuesday morning. I swear, one of these days when he is up late like that setting them off I am gonna make it a point to pull in his driveway at 6 am, lay on my horn until he comes to the door and wave at him - then leave.
"Qui me amat, amat et canem meum" (Love me, love my dog)
The more people I meet the more I like my dog
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience"
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"Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate in their object-relations."
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#4 dobbiehearted

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 12:18 PM

could you show pics please.. both of you...

I used a body harness on my Lexa and she was an easy walk.. she got the 50 foot retractable lead when we would be in the proper area... but around people or where ever she would be retracted back to my side...

Loki walks pretty good with the prong collar, but I walk a bit slow as my ankle gives me trouble so much slower than he wants to go.. I would like to let him ham less pinch.. I barely have to tug it , but still would rather walk him eventually with something elese..

just want to see them in action..thanks
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#5 ella

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 03:42 PM

I got Princess a retractable leash and she loves the s--t out of it. she can go over and smell a tree and I just keep walking it's a 16ft one so she will run to catch up with me and then she goes ahead and just loves it to death. I use her regular collar with it. Of cource I have not come upon a cat yet. don't know what will happen then.
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#6 Javaluva

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 03:52 PM

I've heard from many vets who practice chiropractic work that head collars can cause neck/back issues, so use the Halti sparingly. :flower:

A Halti is nothing more than a management device that keeps the dog from pulling while wearing it rather than teaching the dog not to pull. As long as the Halti is on, good behavior on the walk ensues...take it off, and the dog goes right back to pulling.

There is a method I've seen used, however, that was developed by a positive trainer named Chris Bach that teaches a dog not to pull using a Halti, a flat buckle collar and a lead attached to each. For dogs that have learned to pull while on lead (that is, their pulling has been rewarded by getting what they want by dragging you to it...), she starts out this way: the Halti is used on the head and a lead is attach to it and then a second lead is attached to the dog's collar. The lead on the Halti is used very gently and for nothing more than redirecting the dogs attention toward its handler, while the lead on the collar is used to queue the dog after the redirect to put slack back into the lead. So a training sequence would go like this: Dog targets on something it wants and begins pulling on the collar lead. The Halti is then gently used to redirect the dogs attention back to the handler by pulling his head around (which only begins the motion required of the dog to turn his attention onto his handler). Once the dog's head is around, the collar lead is used to support the action of turning to the handler. As soon as the dog turns to the handler following the tug on the collar lead, the dog is treated. The treats serve to reinforce the behavior of turning to look at the handler when pressure is felt on the collar lead (since the collar pressure is what is felt prior to the reward).

(If the dog is really focused on something and won't turn away, move away from the subject of interest to a distance that keeps the dog's attention but makes it easier for the dog to relinquish the item he's interested in by turning toward you.)

You'll practice the sequence of: Dog starts to pull, handler redirects with pressue on Halti, Halti pressure is immediately released when dog starts to turn and is immediately followed by collar pressure, dog is praised and encouraged to return to handle and treated heavily for the correct behavior.

As the dog begins to "get" the game, very slight pressure on the Halti tells him that great things are going to happen, so he begins to turn around and come right to his handler. Because we've also incorporated a queue using collar pressure directly following Halti pressure, the dog will begin to associate collar pressure with yummy treats (or a toss of his ball). The Halti pressure was the original queue that told the dog good things are coming, the collar pressure then replaces the Halti pressure as the indicator of good things since is directly followed Halti pressure but occurs just before the reward.

Pretty soon, less and less Halti pressure will be required to get the dogs attention and the collar pressure becomes the new queue. Once the dog figures this out, you can eliminate the Halti and work with the collar.

Repetition, repetition, repetition! Eventually you'll work this routine into walking with the dog and asking for a slack lead at all times. And as long as you use high value treats (could be a toy, too, doesn't have to be food!), the dog will learn to relinquish everything else but you in an effort to get what he wants (the high value treats) through maintaining a slack lead. Once he's figured out that a slack lead is what gets him his reward, he'll be more inclined to default to that behavior rather than dragging you down the street. :sorcerer:


Once he's "getting it", you begin to build duration...can you walk five feet on a slack lead? If yes, BIG treats for him! Once he's got that down pat, can he walk 10 feet on a loose lead? If yes, BIG treats for him! Then go for 30, 40, 50 feet....a walk around the block! Your goal is to get him to maintain the behavior (walking on a loose lead) for longer and longer periods of time so you can save his big reward (a toss of his ball or his favorite cookie) for when you decide to end the exercise.

You can also add in a verbal queue that tells the dog to put slack back in the lead rather than having to rely on collar pressure. If you don't care if the dog remains in heel position, use something like "no pull" to tell the dog to slow it down. When introducing a new queue, always use the initially learned queue (collar pressure, in this instance) followed directly by the new queue (verbal "no pull") and the reward for offering the correct behavior. Just as you worked the response to Halti pressure into the new queue of collar pressure only, you'll work toward the verbal queue as being all that is needed.

And never, EVER let a dog get what he wants by pulling on the lead or it only reinforces the pulling behavior. :(
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#7 Dobiegirl51

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:46 PM

If your going to get one get the gentle leader it's much safer than the halti.....heard the halti can do some harm to the neck if it's not properly fitted..we took Logan to the vets and had them fit it too him. It does work well but he is not on the lead much since getting the other collar, but when he is on a lead he does really good since using the gentle leader for a bit....someone else here said don't over use it either.....read read read on the pro's and con's of both collars........
JMO


could you show pics please.. both of you...

I used a body harness on my Lexa and she was an easy walk.. she got the 50 foot retractable lead when we would be in the proper area... but around people or where ever she would be retracted back to my side...

Loki walks pretty good with the prong collar, but I walk a bit slow as my ankle gives me trouble so much slower than he wants to go.. I would like to let him ham less pinch.. I barely have to tug it , but still would rather walk him eventually with something elese..

just want to see them in action..thanks



#8 Stacie

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 05:04 AM

Had it fitted for both of them - and I also have a trainer to work with both of them. Mag and Lilo walk great seperately with me as I am consistent with them - I do not allow them to walk ahead of me, stop to smell anything etc. I walk and they walk with me. My big pet peeve is letting your dog stop whenever to mark territory, poop and so on. I know dogs can't help the later but I have never allowed my dogs to stop as they please or to sniff the ground for what not - they are to walk by my side, head up and at my pace - call me cruel but that is how I feel a behaved dog should walk. As I said earlier - I am not tugging on the halti - they feel a slight tightness around the muzzle area and they instantly correct it. I do not let them flail around when they begin to freak over it - I instantly grab their attention and calm them down. I have the trainer to work with them together - so they can be walked together in a nice orderly fashion and not look like two lunatics coming down the street. They have it down separately - they just need to do it together. I looked at the gentle leader also - they are pretty much close to the same thing.
"Qui me amat, amat et canem meum" (Love me, love my dog)
The more people I meet the more I like my dog
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience"
-Woodrow Wilson
"Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate in their object-relations."
-Sigmund Freud

#9 KellyB

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 06:29 AM

I to also expect my dogs to walk with me not be hind , in front but at my side. When I stop they stop when and where I walk they walk. There is to be no squirel chasing , car chasing. I feel there attention needs to be on where I am. When Kori was gone for a couple of months, I had to bike ride with Myles so we both had to know where the other was. Both Myles and Dakota need to walk the same with me as the would with Kori they tend to try to push the limits more with him. I use the prong collar mainly with myles. His attention wonders more.


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#10 mihalik1413

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:22 AM

I have used the Gentle Leader, cinching chain type collars, and the chain collar with the spikes. I'm actually thinking of trying the Illusion Collar next. As Lexie my female doesn't want to walk anymore due to loud noises. She remembers where she has heard these noises such as garbage trucks (the diesel engines) and decides to stop walking. :( If I pretend to start running I can usually get her going without it turning into a complete drag fest, we have come to the realization that we're going to have to get a little creative in her retraining process as she can be very stubborn.



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#11 Cheri

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:15 AM

Just wondering. Those of you who are using Halti's, what size are you using? My dog training instructor gave me a Gentle Leader to try out, but I decided to go with the Halti instead because it has the emergency connector strap. The back of the box says Size 3 for a Doberman, but even with the part that goes around the neck adjusted to its smallest size, it still will slip easily over Natasha's ears and head. That's the one thing that scares me about both the Halti and the Gentle Leader is that a dog could panic and pull backwards out of it. Natasha is on the small side, about 58 pounds with a petite frame. So I think I'm going to exchange it for the next smaller size. The one thing I don't care for on the Halti is that the metal ring where you connect the leash seems very thin. The Gentle Leader has a much sturdier metal ring.

I haven't actually taken her for a walk at the park with it yet, just tried it around my own yard. She HATES it. Drops to the ground and tries to rub it off, but between the two, she seemed to tolerate the Halti a little better.

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#12 Stacie

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:18 AM

I have used the Gentle Leader, cinching chain type collars, and the chain collar with the spikes. I'm actually thinking of trying the Illusion Collar next. As Lexie my female doesn't want to walk anymore due to loud noises. She remembers where she has heard these noises such as garbage trucks (the diesel engines) and decides to stop walking. :( If I pretend to start running I can usually get her going without it turning into a complete drag fest, we have come to the realization that we're going to have to get a little creative in her retraining process as she can be very stubborn.



Larry


My neighbor bought one for her boxer. She hates it. She thought it was going to help her retrain her boy to walk nicely and it hasn't helped at all. I found that my two remember where the loud noises are also. I actually try to find loud noises for Lilo - she gets startled by them very easily and I have been working on trying to get her over that fear and trusting my judegement 100%. She always looks to me when we are coming upon a noise she doesn't like and I keep walking with my head up high and don't make contact with her. I also don't let her hang her head - I am trying to build her confidence level. She is getting better and I know that she has confidence in me to make the right choice for her. I wish Chris thought the same - I told him the other day to just keep walking by the lawn guys with the weed eaters and ignore them - not to let her know that he was trying to comfort her through the walk. The idiot stops her a few feet from the darn machine and makes her sit - I turned around to see how far behind they were and flipped out on him - she slipped her halti and collar because he didn't put the collar on right and come running to me. So, he is no longer allowed to walk her since he seems to think that he knows it all on the training and I am just an idiot. Now, I wouldn't of had any problems getting her through that part of the walk. Looks as though I may be starting from the begginning with her - August isn't to far off and I really want to get her her CGC - the noise thing is the only thing she needs work on. Anyways, the illusion collar may be good for you but I thought you may want to know some input from others before spending the money. Let me know how it works for you - it may just of been her not training right!
"Qui me amat, amat et canem meum" (Love me, love my dog)
The more people I meet the more I like my dog
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience"
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"Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate in their object-relations."
-Sigmund Freud

#13 jmnodwell

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:04 AM

Here is a link to them on the Dr. Fosters website Gentle Leaders

Joni
Emmalin Jane, George, Clyde, and Rascal (meow & hiss)
From the Bridge - Cosmo (12/2005), Katie (7/2006), Mr. Munchkin (11/2008), Bella DSA, CGC (1/2009), Skitter DSA (12/2010), Beau (11/2014), and Calvin (6/2017)

 

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#14 Jessica S

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:43 PM

I have to say - we bought halti's for Magnum and Lilo the other day - mostly for Lilo because she just wasn't getting the idea of how to walk w/o pulling with the choke collar- at least for the first few minutes of the walk - and because I would love to take both of them at the same time and they are just ridiculous together. Well, on went the halti last night - Magnum freaked out so I took his off and put Lilo's on and out the door Lilo and I went. It took her 3 times of trying to pull and having a freak out over the muzzle being restrained (my neighbors must have thought she was having a seizure by the way she was acting) - I would grab her by the collar to stop her and off we would go again - what a miracle. She walked loose leash by side the rest of the walk! Magnum was upset because I took her and not him so after a few minutes of whinning he slipped into his for Jared and out he came to join us. They both walked like angels. Magnum has always been a good walker alone but now they can both go. I love these halt's and highly recommend them. It is going to take a few more walks before they fully get used to them w/o having the occasional freak out when it pulls tight on the muzzle but def. well worth it.



Thank you for the post.
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#15 Nancy Robinson

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:42 PM

I have to say - we bought halti's for Magnum and Lilo the other day - mostly for Lilo because she just wasn't getting the idea of how to walk w/o pulling with the choke collar- at least for the first few minutes of the walk - and because I would love to take both of them at the same time and they are just ridiculous together. Well, on went the halti last night - Magnum freaked out so I took his off and put Lilo's on and out the door Lilo and I went. It took her 3 times of trying to pull and having a freak out over the muzzle being restrained (my neighbors must have thought she was having a seizure by the way she was acting) - I would grab her by the collar to stop her and off we would go again - what a miracle. She walked loose leash by side the rest of the walk! Magnum was upset because I took her and not him so after a few minutes of whinning he slipped into his for Jared and out he came to join us. They both walked like angels. Magnum has always been a good walker alone but now they can both go. I love these halt's and highly recommend them. It is going to take a few more walks before they fully get used to them w/o having the occasional freak out when it pulls tight on the muzzle but def. well worth it.


I love the name Magnum, a friend of mine has 2 Dobes names Smith & Wesson. Too cute
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#16 Jeff LH.

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 08:27 PM

The best harness by far that I have found is the SENSE-ation harness (( http://www.softouchc...e-ation-harness ).

Zoey will pull like the dickens if she is being walked with her normal collar... Put the SENSE-ation harness on and she is a different dog.

The SENSE-ation harness is set up to clip the leash onto the front of the dog in front of the chest. It can be used singluarly or in conjunction with the regular collar clipped together. The harness works on momentum .. As soon as the dog starts to charge forward, the harness will redirect the momentum of the dog causing the dog to spin around to face YOU! At which point, you can praise the pup for stopping and waiting for you :wub:

Two minutes after putting the SENSE-ation harness on Zoey, the pulling was done and over. She is obviously is smart enough to know when the harness is on or off ... She still pulls when only her daily collar is used to zip outside or for a 5 minute jaunt... But put the harness on and her little butt prances down the street like a dainty ballerina.

Try it out!

Jeff.

Edited by Jeff LH., 06 October 2011 - 08:30 PM.

JLH

#17 Arda

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 08:47 PM

Dainty Ballerina? I have to laugh. I will look into one but I'd love to make a dainty ballerina out of Chaos. I just get such a great visual thinking of Hunden minding. I am going to check it out. Thanks Jeff
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#18 Arda

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 08:49 PM

They go around the chest and not the neck. I have to try on of these.
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#19 Bumpette

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:38 AM

Be sure and post videos of Chaos and Hunden being dainty ballerinas. :hug:

Thanks for the link Jeff, the harness does sound very interesting. :wub:
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#20 CAB

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:15 PM

The best harness by far that I have found is the SENSE-ation harness (( http://www.softouchc...e-ation-harness ).

Cocoa's gonna get an early Christmas present............ :Frustrated:
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