50 replies to this topic

[Javaluva]

I've been doing some research at the suggestion of my obedience instructor, Cathie, into the possibility that Belle's unacceptable, super-stressed behavior during class and unfamiliar settings is a result of a hypothyroid condition. Cathie was going through some of her old dog magazines and found an article pertaining to a link between behavior and hypothyroidism and promptly thought of Belle. In my research and from what Cathie tells me, the typical thyroid test that is done during a standard vet visit isn't indepth enough to give an accurate analysis as to whether or not there truly is an underlying condition. Prior to us adopting Belle, she had been thyroid tested, the results of which came back normal.

I'm finding that Belle fits a very detailed profile of a likely hypothyroid condition: hair loss, seborrhea (oily skin), coarse coat, excessive skin pigmentation, hyper excitability, unprovoked aggression toward other dogs, incessant whining, nervousness, schizoid behavior, fear in the presence of strangers, hyperventilation, undue sweating, occasional disorientation, failure to be attentive, flakiness, unable to handle any kind of stress, frantically circling, not able to settle down and powers of concentration are very short. This is, by no means, a comprehensive list of the potential symptoms of hypothyroidism as they manifest in MANY forms, these are just the symptoms that pertain to Belle. According to my research, there are three different classes of symptoms that could indicate a hypothyroid condition: Aggression, extreme shyness or seizure-like activity. Belle fits into the aggression category.

We haven't done any indepth thyroid testing on Belle yet, but will begin doing so next week when everyone goes in for titre testing and annual physicals. I'll keep everyone abreast as to our findings. In the meantime, here are a couple of links to some AWESOME articles on the topic:

http://www.thedogsce...othyroidism.htm

http://canine-epilep...re_behavior.htm

http://canine-epilep...roidDisease.htm

[dobeluvr]

Thanks Mandy. This is very interesting. Yes, please keep us informed about Belle.

Jane

[Arda]

These are some of the very things we have put dogs on Soloxine for. And thedifficulty I have with putting a dog down because it has biten. You are discribing the very things I look at when we run a volley of tests on some of these dogs. Very important to get those in depth tests done by someone that realizes what and why you are concerned. The Swamp

[LStevens]

My big red, Gunnar, was found to have hypothyroidism. He had spotty alopecia, a coarse coat and some urinary problems before treatment. After testing, he took one pill twice daily. He was an intact male. Now that I think back, after reading these articles, he was agressive with strangers. He was a wonderful guardian and protector to the family, however.

I did not make the connection until now, but he was euthanized at age 6 due to cardiomyopathy. I had no idea there was a correlation between thyroid disease and cardiomyopathy.

For those horse lovers out there, I have two mares - a mother and daughter - both of whom are on thyroid. They had a tendency to gain weight, and were incapable of shedding out their winter coats in the spring before treatment. There were no personality or behavior problems either before or after testing and medication.

I did learn, however, in evaluating the mares, that you had to have testing done only at certain labs to actually determine an abnormality. Not every lab tests the same way.

Mandy, I hope the lab work helps to determine if Belle has a physiological problem. Please keep us informed. Thank you for the very informative articles.

Linda

[Javaluva]

Got a call from my vet Friday evening and Belle's test results are back on her thyroid--she tested low/normal, which could indicate the early stages of hypothyroidism. He said there definitely have been changes since the last time she was tested by Dr. Karen seven months ago. He suggested starting her on trial hormone therapy to see if there's a difference in her behavior and skin/coat, or waiting another three months and retesting her for changes. I'm opting for the therapy as I'm fairly certain there's a problem. I'll start her on the meds today and will keep my fingers crossed that it helps her!

[Arda]

Mandy, I know I really don't have to ask but, I want you to know that I am reading all of this, PLEASE keep us updated. Reasons.....Thunder, Kent, Jaimie, Zane, Harley, Tracie, Cody, etc. We indeed need to know what to look for and how to treat these problems. What if that was all it was that cost the lives of so many of these dogs. Thanks, Arda

[Javaluva]

Yep, I totally hear you, Arda. There are a LOT of behavioral issues, from what I've been reading, that can be attributed to thyroid conditions, and unfortunately, hypothyroidism isn't even considered to be the cause. Even if a dog tests low/normal, many vets pass it off as not needing treatment, when in some cases, low/normal for some dogs does INDEED mean they need hormone therapy as their normal ranges have a tendency to be higher than what's been established as "normal," which I believe is the case with Belle. I don't have a copy of her current test results as I haven't had a chance to meet with my vet, but will do so this afternoon. I'll pick up the results and will post them here, along with the results of the test Dr. Karen did seven months ago for a change comparison.

In my research, I've also found contact information to a veterinarian who specializes in the canine immune system and hyphothyroidism, her name is Dr. Jean Dodds. Here it is in case you or Dr. Karen would like to contact her should you ever have an "iffy" case:

W. Jean Dodds, DVM
Hemopet
11330 Markon Drive
Garden Grove, CA. 92841

Dr. Dodds can be reached from 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM Pacific Time, at the following numbers:

Monday, Tuesday and Friday (Phone) 310-828-4804 (Fax) 310-828-8251
Wednesday and Thursday (Phone) 714-891-2022 (Fax) 714-891-2123

[Javaluva]

And just as an added sidenote, not all of the behavioral issues I've described are ALWAYS a sign of a thyroid condition. There's a big difference between actually having a behavioral based problem and a physiologically based problem. When I describe Belle, at home, she acts like a normal dog. When she's taken into unfamiliar places and is around unfamiliar dogs and such, she goes into complete compulsive mode and there isn't a thing anyone can do to snap her out of it. When we were going to obedience class, if her problem had been behaviorial in nature, there should have been some improvement in her behavior over the course of the class as she became acustomed to the atmosphere and goingson. All throughout the six week course, she displayed the same compulsive, stressed behaviors without improvement. The only time she ever showed signs of semi-normalcy was when she was the only dog out working and everyone else was sitting quietly on the sidelines. Even then she was a bit stressed, but not as bad.

[Javaluva]

Picked up Belle's meds this morning and will be starting her tonight. She's on Levothyroxine Sodium tablets (Thyrosyn), .4 Mg twice a day (recommended DAILY dose is .1 Mg/10 lbs. body weight). My vet is on vacation all this week so I haven't had a chance to talk to him about follow-up blood work to monitor dosage, and the receptionist couldn't find the test results so I don't have those either. She'll send them to me in the mail as soon as she finds them and I'll post them here.

From what I've read, many dogs that have the same behaviorial issues as Belle that can be attributed to hypothyroidism see a change in behavior at around 3 weeks into hormone therapy, although 6 weeks is typically allowed for noticeable changes. Fingers crossed!!

[Arda]

Thanks Mandy. Jeannie, Gypsey, Toot, Helpim, Rudy, Stretch, and Candy are all on it. More for coat issues and low thyroid that we would test for at the clinic. I am still interested in the other issues especially with a low-normal range. Good girl and THANKS> Swamp Mama

[Javaluva]

A very key point when exploring thyroid function is the following (this pertains to humans but the same would apply to canines):

In her book Living Well With Hypothyroidism: What Your Doctor Doesn't Tell You. . . That You Need to Know, Mary Shomon quotes endocrinologist Kenneth Blanchard, M.D., of Lower Newton Falls, Massachusetts as saying, “The key thing is . . . doctors are always told that TSH is the test that gives us a yes or no answer. And, in fact, I think that's fundamentally wrong. The pituitary TSH is controlled not just by how much T4 and T3 is in circulation, but T4 is getting converted to T3 at the pituitary level. Excess T3 generated at the pituitary level can falsely suppress TSH.” Hence, many people who are simply tested for TSH levels and are found to be within “normal” range are, in fact, suffering from “sub-clinical” thyroid problems that are going undetected.

Ridha Arem, MD, Associate Professor of Medicine in the Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism at Baylor College of Medicine, agrees. He says that hypothyroidism may exist despite "normal range" TSH levels. In his book The Thyroid Solution he says:

Many people may be suffering from minute imbalances that have not yet resulted in abnormal blood tests. If we included people with low-grade hypothyroidism whose blood tests are normal, the frequency of hypothyroidism would no doubt exceed 10 percent of the population. What is of special concern, though, is that many people whose test results are dismissed as normal could continue to have symptoms of an under active thyroid. Their moods, emotions, and overall well-being are affected by this imbalance, yet they are not receiving the care they need to get to the root of their problems. Even if the TSH level is in the lower segment of normal range, a person may still be suffering from low-grade hypothyroidism. (Copied from http://www.coconutoi...oid_health.htm)

Belle's test results showed her TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) levels to be quite high, but her overall T3 and T4 levels tested in the low/normal range.

Arda...I'm finding some information on treating hypothyroidism with coconut oil as being very effective. Not sure how cost effective it is, though, but will post any information I find if it's worthwhile.

[Javaluva]

Received Belle's thyroid test results in the mail today (FAST! They sent them out this morning!):

Test done 5/25/05

Total T4: 18 NORMAL: 15-67 nmol/L
Total T3: 1.2 NORMAL: 1.0-2.5 nmol/L
Free T4: 11 NORMAL: 8-26 pmol/L
Free T3: 5.2 NORMAL: 4.5-12 pmol/L
T4 Autoantibody: 8 NORMAL: <20
T3 Autoantibody: 0 NORMAL: <10

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone: 42 NORMAL: 0-37 mU/L

Thyroglobulin Autoantibody: 17 NORMAL: 20%=Negative, 20-35%=Inconclusive, 35%=Positive


All of Belle's T3 & T4 levels are within normal ranges but on the low side of normal. Her TSH is above normal. Unfortunately I can't find her test results from seven months ago, but all of her levels were about mid-range at that time. I'll post those results for comparison as soon as I find them.

[Javaluva]

One week into therapy, June 7, 2005:

Although not completely "cured," Belle's behavior has seemed to have improved a bit over the past week, although not drastically yet. I haven't seen her run compulsive, uncontrollable laps around the dog yard when she sees an animal, a person, or the horses, which in itself is a BIG improvement for her! When seeing the horses outside through the window, Belle would pace throughout the house and pant heavily--haven't seen her do that all week either. Her recovery period after experiencing such a thing seems to have improved as well, with her returning to "normal" at a much quicker rate.

I haven't taken her to any public places yet to see how she handles herself, but will start doing so soon. I, obviously, haven't seen any improvements in her skin/coat as of yet, but a few more weeks should yield at least a minor change.

I think we're on our way to sanity!!

[Arda]

I will be starting Rori and Kobe on Soloxine without testing to see if I can find a solutions to their problems. I can't get any weight on them even though we are feeding them a higher ration of food and I have wormed them to the inch degree. They never settle down. Continuely pacing. I'm praying and your reading and we might get a handle on them. PLEASE keep me updated. And I will keep you informed. Arda

[jmnodwell]

I will be starting Rori and Kobe on Soloxine without testing to see if I can find a solutions to their problems.  I can't get any weight on them even though we are feeding them a higher ration of food and I have wormed them to the inch degree.  They never settle down.  Continuely pacing. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THOSE are the 2 circlers/pacers??? I didn't know their names!!!

[CAB]

Do they circle and pace in the outside kennels as well? Those poor dogs. I sure hope the Soloxine works.

Edited by CAB, 08 June 2005 - 01:30 PM.

[Arda]

In my heart I am afraid that they have been in that shape for a long time and we may not be able to turn it around. Stretch and Rudy are thyroid dogs. The hair loss and the spinning. But we use their blood and they can not be on meds if we use them. I have pulled them off the list and started their thyroid meds a month ago. The spinning is conciderably less. Rudy is getting some hair in. They are done giving as far as I am concerned. Next Dr Hall has asked to come down and draw samples of all of our young dogs. I have to set up a place to work for them. It is always to the advantage of the dog and other dogs that need help. Will keep you informed. I guess I didn't answer your question very well, yes they circle all the time. Wet their crates several times a day. They are a mess. We will full heartedly try to help them. The Swamp mama

[jmnodwell]

I will also reseach to see if any TTouch, accupressure, or massage techniques will help them out...

[Javaluva]

Arda,

I'll pay for testing if you'll have them tested. Dr. Karen can pull the blood and send it to MSU for a detailed analysis. It'll be a lot safer to have them tested than to administer hormone therapy replacement without knowing. If you do medicate them, please watch for the following symptoms over the next 24 hours (some symptoms may take up to a week to manifest) after you've administered medication in case they don't have thyroid conditions...

Acute symptoms of increased adrenergic activity:
Abdominal pain
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea
Increased appetite
Insomnia
Anxiousness
Agitation
Tremors
Seizures
Weakness
Diaphoresis (perspiration)
Palpitations
Hypertension or hypotension
Hyperpyrexia (abnormally high fever)

[CAB]

This is very kind of you Mandy.