21 replies to this topic

[baron'sma]

Hey everyone, new to the site so be gentle till i get the hang of things. I have a 1 year old male, and he is a complete handful . I am located in Monroe and I am having one heck of a time finding a trainer for Baron. I had posted a thread on CL for some help with training. Well needless to say the responses were either not tailored toward dobes, or they "trainer's" methods were so severe that I ran for the hills. Any help would be really appreciated.


Thanks,
Steph

[Daisy]

Hi,
Dont know of any training classes in monroe, but theres some in ann arbor
area.. Arbor roads-734-662-6518 www.arboroads.com
They may know of some closer to you...

[Cheri]

Welcome to the board, Steph. Off the top of my head, I'm not thinking of anything in Monroe, but here are two that are not too far north:

http://www.curreysfamilypetcare.com/

Currey's Family Pet Care is on Hannan Road, just north of I-94, near the I-94/1-275 intersection.

http://obediencelaboratoryhome.com/

Obedience Laboratory is near I-275 and Sibley Road exit.

I know neither one of these is exactly in your backyard, but let me think about this for a while. I may think of something else. Meanwhile, if there is something in particular you are concerned about, don't hesitate to bring it up here. I have found everyone on this discussion board to be helpful and friendly. Also, check your library. They may have some good training books and/or videos that would help. A one-year-old male Dobe is definitely going to be a handful, but it sounds like you are a responsible dog owner who understands the need for training.

Edited by Cheri, 09 March 2009 - 09:13 PM.

[jmnodwell]

I have a friend who comes to your home to help you train... her website is Serendipity Dog Training. Her name is Maggie Ouillette and she is wonderful and all positive reinforcement/clicker training...

[baron'sma]

Thanks for all the help everyone its really appreciated! I came across one trainer who uses pinch collars, and he proceeded to spell out his "techniques" for and I quote "ripping the dog's head off to break him". He also wanted me to board him for 3 weeks, and I was not allowed to visit Baron the whole time. Dude totally freaked me out. I dont mind having to drive a little ways to gget Baron trained. Dont gget me wrong Baron is a big teddy bear and very sweet, great with kids of all ages, very tolerant, but he does not seem to get that he is not a 95 pound lap dog. I do not want to go to a trainer who is going to "break" him. As far as I know Baron is not broken...LOL Anyone have any thoughts on pinch collars? I am totally against them for their long term effects...any thoughts???

I guess that my biggesst concerns are basic obedience...sit stay come. I taught him those but outside of the house or with any distractions, forget it all of that goes out the window.


Thanks,
Steph

[oreo5129]

http://www.grrom.com..._2_jan_2009.htm
try this site, Steph. It lists obedience classes in MI. I don't know how thorough it is, but it might be worth taking a look at.

Mary

Edited by oreo5129, 10 March 2009 - 07:30 AM.

[Bumpette]

Thanks for all the help everyone its really appreciated! I came across one trainer who uses pinch collars, and he proceeded to spell out his "techniques" for and I quote "ripping the dog's head off to break him". He also wanted me to board him for 3 weeks, and I was not allowed to visit Baron the whole time. Dude totally freaked me out. I dont mind having to drive a little ways to gget Baron trained. Dont gget me wrong Baron is a big teddy bear and very sweet, great with kids of all ages, very tolerant, but he does not seem to get that he is not a 95 pound lap dog. I do not want to go to a trainer who is going to "break" him. As far as I know Baron is not broken...LOL Anyone have any thoughts on pinch collars? I am totally against them for their long term effects...any thoughts???

I guess that my biggesst concerns are basic obedience...sit stay come. I taught him those but outside of the house or with any distractions, forget it all of that goes out the window.


Thanks,
Steph

Boarding your dog with someone so they can train him doesn't sound like a good idea to me. You need to be trained as well, on how to handle him. It might not hurt to take Baron to an obedience class even though he already knows the basic commands. The class would teach him to look to you for instructions.

[Cheri]

Thanks for all the help everyone its really appreciated! I came across one trainer who uses pinch collars, and he proceeded to spell out his "techniques" for and I quote "ripping the dog's head off to break him". He also wanted me to board him for 3 weeks, and I was not allowed to visit Baron the whole time. Dude totally freaked me out. I dont mind having to drive a little ways to gget Baron trained. Dont gget me wrong Baron is a big teddy bear and very sweet, great with kids of all ages, very tolerant, but he does not seem to get that he is not a 95 pound lap dog. I do not want to go to a trainer who is going to "break" him. As far as I know Baron is not broken...LOL Anyone have any thoughts on pinch collars? I am totally against them for their long term effects...any thoughts???

I guess that my biggesst concerns are basic obedience...sit stay come. I taught him those but outside of the house or with any distractions, forget it all of that goes out the window.


Thanks,
Steph

I absolutely agree that sending a dog away to be trained, without your participation, is a big mistake. By doing the training yourself, under an experienced trainer's guidance, it cements the bond between you, it establishes Baron's position in the "pack," and enables the two of you to communicate more effectively.

As far as Baron forgetting all his commands in the presence of distractions, that is perfectly normal for a dog of his age, with his level of training. Is he neutered yet? If not, then you are basically dealing with a teenage boy with all those hormones, and listening to "Ma" is the last thing on his mind. And if he is neutered, he's still at an age that you can't expect total attention. That comes with practice, practice, practice. In competition obedience, they call it proofing, where you gradually add more and more distractions into the picture while still expecting the dog to do what he was asked. So try to consider distractions a way of furthering Baron's training. Train him in situations where he is just slightly distracted, then add more distractions as he can handle it.

I know there are many different opinions on pinch collars. Personally, I use them on the two Dobermans I have now. Of course, they can be cruel if used incorrectly. But I have never had to "rip my dog's head off." I see it this way. My 10-month-old male is very large and powerful and still growing. With the prong collar, he pulls against it, says to himself, "This doesn't feel good," notices that if he stops pulling, the discomfort goes away. If used correctly, a prong collar requires very little force to be effective. On the other hand, if I had been using a plain leather or nylon collar over the winter, I would probably be recuperating from various broken bones right now. There were many times I had to walk Logan over snowy, icy, very slippery conditions. He would have literally pulled me down and dragged me without the pinch collar.

And by the way, like a few others here, I have put the pinch collar on my own neck so I know what the dog is feeling. They really look much worse than they feel. Now, I'm not saying the pinch collar is the only way to go. Many trainers and dog owners have differing opinions. Some wouldn't think of using a pinch collar. Some feel a buckle collar is the only way. Some use chain collars, what used to be called a choke chain. Others believe the head halters are the only way to handle strong dogs. My personal experience with head halters is not very good, but if that's what works for a particular dog, great.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't believe one method works for all dogs, and you may have to experiment to find what's best for you and Baron. The important thing is to work with him every day or as often as possible. It doesn't have to be just sit-down-stay. Practice the word "wait." That means if you open the door, he doesn't just charge out. You say wait, and he then waits until you say okay or whatever your release word is. You can also use the "wait" word when you put down his food dish. And if you don't want a 95-pound dog in your lap, then don't allow that. Teach him the word "off." If he's not allowed on the furniture, then enforce that. In my house, my dogs are allowed on the furniture, but they also know that if I happen to want to sit where they are, they defer to me. All I have to say is "off." When company comes over, do not allow Baron to jump on them or knock them down. Enforce that by whatever means works best. Sometimes, it's having a leash and collar on the dog, sometimes a squirt bottle is enough of a deterrent.

Sorry to go on and on here. You might guess that I passionately believe in obedience training for all dogs, not just those going into competition. And I also believe that obedience training is something you do with your dog every day, not just in training class. I can't remember who this quote is from, but I have heard it said that "Great dogs are not born, they are made." You may not see results as fast as you would like, but over time, with practice, consistency, and your determination, Baron will turn into a well-mannered gentleman. Good luck to you.

[jmnodwell]

Boarding your dog with someone so they can train him doesn't sound like a good idea to me. You need to be trained as well, on how to handle him.

I did this in a couple of extreme cases but only for a week and the owners then had homework for during that week and I met with them several times after to make sure they were modifying THEIR behaviour as well...

It was because it allowed me to modify the dog's behaviour without the owner's "interference" and them turned around... I had one dog that would bark in the house constantly. The owners would jump and and feed them or let them out or pet them but, of course, this got old fairly quickly but they didn't want to listen to the dog bark and the dog had learned that barking got them things... So the dog came to my house and I listened AND ignored when she barked in the house... first day 40 minutes straight, but when she stopped? praise and cookies, but barking soon started again... but after two days, no more barking in the house... asking politely attention with a sit and getting it when I wanted to give, etc, sitting before getting fed, etc (all with positive reinforcement methods) but for the most part you taking your dog to class is the best thing... you bond, and you reward your dog with more of your attention and time...

Sorry, I'm not in Michigan any more...

[Bumpette]

It sounds like you were dealing with some extreme issues, Joni, when you kept the dogs for training. I didn't think it sounded very good when Steph said the trainer wanted her to board Baron for 3 weeks, with no contact from her, so the trainer could use his technique of 'ripping the dog's head off' to break him of his behaviors. That raised a red flag with me, why would a trainer not want the owner involved in the training? It's kind of like training a horse. If you take the horse somewhere to be trained, you end up with a nicely trained horse. But you have no idea how to get the horse to do what the trainer did, unless you are trained as well.

[Cheri]

I did this in a couple of extreme cases but only for a week and the owners then had homework for during that week and I met with them several times after to make sure they were modifying THEIR behaviour as well...

You're absolutely right, Joni. There are exceptions, of course, and the situation you describe is a perfect example. Sometimes, we dog owners unwittingly reinforce bad behaviors in our dogs without realizing we're doing it.


When Steph mentioned that this particular trainer wanted to board her dog at his facility for three weeks and she wouldn't be allowed to see him during that time, it just brought up a bad memory for me of that high-profile case last year in Ohio where a so-called dog trainer allowed numerous dogs in his care at his facility to starve to death. BTW, he was sentenced in January and got a paltry four months in jail, had to pay restitution and fines and cannot own dogs for three years. I am just speechless at the inadequacy of such a sentence.

[jmnodwell]

It sounds like you were dealing with some extreme issues, Joni, when you kept the dogs for training. I didn't think it sounded very good when Steph said the trainer wanted her to board Baron for 3 weeks, with no contact from her, so the trainer could use his technique of 'ripping the dog's head off' to break him of his behaviors. That raised a red flag with me, why would a trainer not want the owner involved in the training? It's kind of like training a horse. If you take the horse somewhere to be trained, you end up with a nicely trained horse. But you have no idea how to get the horse to do what the trainer did, unless you are trained as well.

exactly, which is why the owners had as much follow up with me as I could get out of them... and I still have one owner call me occasionally and tell me "Jessie is doing this" or "Jessie is doing that" and I'll have to reinforce the owner's behavior to get the dog's correct behavior... usually off the furniture... LOL

[oreo5129]

You're absolutely right, Joni. There are exceptions, of course, and the situation you describe is a perfect example. Sometimes, we dog owners unwittingly reinforce bad behaviors in our dogs without realizing we're doing it.


When Steph mentioned that this particular trainer wanted to board her dog at his facility for three weeks and she wouldn't be allowed to see him during that time, it just brought up a bad memory for me of that high-profile case last year in Ohio where a so-called dog trainer allowed numerous dogs in his care at his facility to starve to death. BTW, he was sentenced in January and got a paltry four months in jail, had to pay restitution and fines and cannot own dogs for three years. I am just speechless at the inadequacy of such a sentence.

Cowardly Ba$tard. Always the ones that can't fend for themselves-animals, kids, and elderly are the ones that get targeted.
Mary

Edited by oreo5129, 10 March 2009 - 05:51 PM.

[baron'sma]

hey everyone, i just wanted to thank everyone for their support and help. i set up an appointment for tomorrow at 10:30 at currey family pet care. there is a small consultation fee($35.00) but they told me to bring both of my dogs (she is a 2 year old mutt...shepherd beagle mix), so they could see how the whole family acts as a "pack". I feel R E A L L Y good about this place, so does Joel ( oops sorry thats the 'ol man ). i will let everyone know how it goes...thank you cheri for the link...

*paws crossed*

Steph

[Bumpette]

Sounds like a good place. Our fingers and paws are crossed for you!

[Cheri]

Fingers and paws crossed here, too. Let us know how it goes. I'm not personally familiar with the Curreys, but I knew the previous owners of the facility and had taken classes with them. Back then it was called the K-9 Academy, owned by the Shoenbachs, who have since retired. They were wonderful trainers, and I hope you will have a good experience with the new owners.

[baron'sma]

Hey everyone just a quick update on Baron's training.

Well we went for the consultation, and it went G R E A T !!! Pat was awesome answered all my questions, and pointed out quite a few things that I did not see with both of the dogs. Turns out my "perfect" angel, aint so perfect . He is going to train both of my dogs for W A Y less than any other trainer hhad quoted me for just Baron. He also said that he did not think that the dog's issues were so severe, he said that they were mild. That made me feel sooooo much better!!! *whew*

I just wanted to thank all of you again for all the help and support. Baron and Bailey start their training in April. In the meantime he gave us "tips" they we can start using, and man oh man have they worked.

Ill keep everyone posted...


Steph

[Cheri]

I'm glad to hear your first meeting went well. So tell us all about it! Will you be going to group classes? One-on-one instruction? I'm interested in learning more about this facility since they are fairly close to me. They have a nice website, but I didn't really see anything like a schedule of classes.

[baron'sma]

I'm glad to hear your first meeting went well. So tell us all about it! Will you be going to group classes? One-on-one instruction? I'm interested in learning more about this facility since they are fairly close to me. They have a nice website, but I didn't really see anything like a schedule of classes.

Baron and Bailey will be going into the behavior classes as a Level One. They have both group and individual classes. Baron and Bailey will go through 4 steps of training including a home visit to see what we are doing "wrong" at home. Then we will "apply" the lessons for the next 4 months, then the 4th step will be what they call "owners" choice". That can be anything that we are still having trouble with or anything else beyond the behavior modification steps.

When we went the facility was great!!!!! CHERI: I think that you would really like it if you went. the have a "doggie pond" with a jump ramp, a nice kennel set up for boarding. When we go for our 1st class we will schedule the dogs so we can actually have a "family vacation" this summer. I hope that the excitment is coming through in my reply, cause I am so happy to have found a trainner that does not think that Baron is hopeless, or that i need to pay a small fortune.

Steph

[baron'sma]

UPDATE....

So Baron and Bailey have been in training for about 3 weeks now...and O H M Y G O S H, they are like 2 different dogs. Now believe me they are still not 100% but just the litttle things. *whew* The traing was really put to the test this week. I have been baby sitting for my nephews and I was really nervous about how the dogs were going to act with all the kids. (9, 7, 6, 5, 2, and 5 months). Well these dogs were awesome!!!!!! The first day they were so excited to have more kids to play with that they wore them selves out sniffing all the kids and running with them, and to boot it was raining all day so they had no choice but to be with the kids. But the 2nd day it was like they were never not here. I have a play pen set up in the living room for the baby to take his naps in, well they baby was in there cooing and ahhing Baron went right over to the play pen sniffed it, licked the baby's hand through the mesh, then put his but up against the mesh (velcroed himself) and leaned in like he does with us. It was the cutest thhing I have ever seen. All morning he has had his nose to the ground and whinning looking for all the kids, and when he lays down he is laying next to the play pen and laying his head against it peering in. All in all they are doing great, just thought I would let everyone know how they were doing with their training, and to thank everyone agin for their help and support....

Steph