27 replies to this topic

[dobbiehearted]

Ok, she is in the final stages of dcm.. and taking all her medicaitons.. she seems to be hungry for what I have allowed her to change to...... she wants nothing to do with her one time diet of Canidae kibble.. with occassional treats of meat.. the normal spoiling stuff..

the old way was approx 2 cups 2 times a day of kibble.

ok today the new feeding is as follows:

Now she is eating no kibble and nearly 5--7 cups of food per day.. am I on the right conversion??


she is taking a pet tab per day.. for the suggested suppliment.
she is eating very good, rice and baked dark and white chicken (no bones)
she is eating some ground hamburger or turkey... still picky with this with rice
she is eating some rice or egg noodles for the filler with the meat-- but still picks the meat out so her protein intake is higher than I would like it...

I am feeding her two jars of the baby food per day..meat to get her to lick and take her pills.. this is the only way.

I am concerned she is getting too much protein.. this is a drastic change for her and she is doing ok .. one of her kidney test 14 days after her diagnosis and change of diet was ok range.. the part that was elevated was from me feeding her too much protein most likely the vet said.. more test to come.......

But in the mean time with the time I have been given ..I want to push the odds..I want to hope that I may get 6 months..

help me out with what I am doing wrong with her daily feeding.. she is picky as she just doesnt want much unless its the above.. she will have nothing to do with vegetables..nothing !! I occassionally add a hard boiled egg in her bowl..she eats that to.....

any adivce? What can I add to give her balance, but keep it really tasting good..I have to stay away from salt/sodium.. thanks

[Stef]

- Hard boiled eggs with shell for calcium
- Oatmeal/buckwheat or Oatmeal/millet (75% oatmeal / 25% other - mine FAR prefer buckwheat over millet)
- Yogurt (High fat - 6% Balkan style is what I buy)
- Brown rice
- Molasses
- Honey (once or twice a week)
- Vitamin C/E/B-Complex
- Vegetables & Fruit (Veggies need to be cooked or pureed. Fruit - anything is fine but most dogs won't eat citrus. I tend to stick with apples, pears, blueberries, strawberries, etc. Anything that is easily accessible.)
- safflower/sunflower oil
- cod liver oil

Molasses is full of all sorts of good things including B complex, potassium and trace minerals. Honey is high in iron, copper, manganese, silica, potassium, etc.

I think there might be a problem with the calcium/phosphorus ratio because she's not getting bonemeal or raw bones. (I'm not an expert, but I know that you have to add calcium if you're just feeding muscle meat. This does not apply if the dog is being fed a "BARF" diet or raw-meaty bones.) I don't know how to fix it other than to feed bonemeal. I can give you the amounts for her size if you pm me her weight.

I usually prepare 2.5C Oatmeal / 1/2C Buckwheat with 9C boiling water but that would probably last you 2-3 days.

If you mix the grain/rice mix with things like yogurt and molasses she will be much more likely to eat it. I wouldn't eat plain rice either and I'd much rather pick out the good stuff. I would puree the veggies and mix it with the yogurt and cereal/rice and molasses.

Oh! I forgot Kelp - you can get it at a health food store in powdered form. Nutritional yeast is also good stuff...

Edited by Stef, 08 April 2007 - 08:55 PM.

[Stef]

I was thinking about this last night - and if I were you I think I would have a consult done with Carolann - http://www.healthycanine.ca/Diet.htm She adopted from Arda and is a canine nutritionist out East. She does on-line or phone consults.

Have a look at the website and maybe think about having her consult on your feeding plans. She really knows what she's talking about. I'm just sort of parrotting what I've read - but she could actually design a feeding plan that will help your dog and ensure that all the nutritional requirements are met.

Just a thought...

[LuvmydobeApollo]

Why are you changing her diet? did the vet tell you too? Is she not eating her regular food? Unless she wont eat, or dr. says to change food, i would leave it the way i was. i mean you can spice it up a bit with extra foods to spoil her, but otherwise, i would leave it the way it was.
sharen

[Javaluva]

Why not change her diet? Especially when changing from an all-kibble diet to a raw diet (or lightly cooked). A raw diet is always better than an all kibble diet. Kibble, to a dog, is equivalent to us eating McDonald's food every day with all the crap that's in it. Even with a good kibble, like Canidae, you still get synthetic additives.

Dobes should be fed a base diet of red meat (beef, venison, etc.) rather than chicken and should not be fed rice. Chicken along with bone (ground up in a meat grinder to avoid choking hazard) makes a great breakfast and supplies the diet with needed calcium. There's also a product called EarthORIGINS (Urban Carnivore) you can sprinkle over raw food to ensure the mineral and vitamin need is met in the diet, although feeding a good variety of meats along with mixed vegatables should be substantial in that regard. Don't forget to add a few ounces of beef heart daily as it'll supply the needed taurine for her heart. Eggs are great for skin and coat, but be sure they're lightly poached or boiled before feeding. Slippery elm bark will help, too, during the transition from kibble to raw if she has a sensitive stomach.

The key with a homemade diet is to feed a variety over time. There's no strict regimen to follow.

Although this will not cure her DCM, it'll definitely make her healthier.

Carolann with Princess Healthy Canine is a WONDERFUL resource. I highly suggest, along with Stef, that you check her out!

[Stef]

Dobes should be fed a base diet of red meat (beef, venison, etc.) rather than chicken and should not be fed rice.

It's SO funny you say that about the rice - I had always used rice with Wes whenever he had an upset stomach (on the vet's suggestion). I tried it with Tux and he would either throw up the rice or it would come out undigested.

Until I read the Holistic Guide for the Healthy Dog I didn't realize that rice isn't "native" to many breeds and they can't digest it well. After that I switched to oatmeal when I had upset tummies.

I haven't had a case of upset stomach since I started feeding raw. (Westley used to throw up at least 1-2x a month.) We used to have loose poop several times a month too. That's all gone now. Whooohoooo!!

Mandy - have you had a consult with Carolann? I requested the form, but I haven't filled it in yet.

[Javaluva]

It's SO funny you say that about the rice - I had always used rice with Wes whenever he had an upset stomach (on the vet's suggestion).   I tried it with Tux and he would either throw up the rice or it would come out undigested.

Until I read the Holistic Guide for the Healthy Dog I didn't realize that rice isn't "native" to many breeds and they can't digest it well.  After that I switched to oatmeal when I had upset tummies.

I haven't had a case of upset stomach since I started feeding raw.  (Westley used to throw up at least 1-2x a month.)  We used to have loose poop several times a month too.  That's all gone now.  Whooohoooo!!

Mandy - have you had a consult with Carolann?  I requested the form, but I haven't filled it in yet.

I was pretty surprised about the rice thing myself. I feed Canidae and the next ingredient after meat is...da-da-da!....rice! So...not the best food for Dobes.

Yep, I've contacted Carolann and we've been emailing back and forth quite extensively. She has Maddie-Love, Tux's sister. Send her an email and let her know who you are. She'll be really excited to hear how Tux is doing as she asked me if I stayed in contact with Maddie-Love's littermates families. I told her about Tux and Draeko and sent her pictures. I'm sure she'd love to hear from you.

[Vicki_Wood]

OK, HERE I GO AGAIN with the Dick VanPatten food; after I found out about the taurine issue, checked the ingredients yet again and it does contain taurine. I agree about the sensitive stomach thing and know if I would give my dogs (especially Gracie) a raw diet, they'd be sicker than a dog (oh, that's right, they are a dog). I also give Coby the Missing Link powder and had to slowly start him on it. While I give it to him for his coat and skin, it has a lot of the omega stuff for heart in it. I also give them the fish oil gel caps, but I only do one a day.

[CAB]

I was pretty surprised about the rice thing myself.   I feed Canidae and the next ingredient after meat is...da-da-da!....rice!  So...not the best food for Dobes.

Hummmmmm........I feed Val Canidae. Maybe I'll switch him over to one of the Eagle Pack varieties. I'll have to check and see if they carry a senior line.

[CAB]

Ground Brown Rice and Ground White Rice are ingredients in the Eagle Pack Holistic Select® Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meal Formula, which is what I feed Cocoa, and it's also in the Holistic Select® Senior Care® Formula.

[Javaluva]

One of the biggest problems with kibble diets is the baking/extrusion process. Super high temperatures are used, and even though commercial food companies advertise their foods being rich with vitamins and nutrients, in the end, there really isn't much left because the high temps destroy the nutritional value of them, unfortunately. Because of this, additional synthetic vitamins and minerals are added after the baking/extrusion process in an attempt to make up the difference. Anything synthetic that's added to food, be it people or animal, is never a good thing for our bodies.

Here's some information on commercial pet foodst:

http://www.healthycanine.ca/Diet.htm

http://www.api4anima...ts?p=359&more=1

[Javaluva]

Ground Brown Rice and Ground White Rice are ingredients in the Eagle Pack Holistic Select® Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meal Formula, which is what I feed Cocoa, and it's also in the Holistic Select® Senior Care® Formula. 

I know...it's in a LOT of foods...

[Stef]

I forgot about cottage cheese!! And dogs love it! (Me not so much...)

[Javaluva]

Ground Brown Rice and Ground White Rice are ingredients in the Eagle Pack Holistic Select® Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meal Formula, which is what I feed Cocoa, and it's also in the Holistic Select® Senior Care® Formula. 

Val's a Dobe/mix, isn't he? If so, you can be a little lenient on this, but generally with mixed breeds, you should always feed a diet that's appropriate for the most apparent breed in the mix. Mixed breeds are a little hardier and can withstand a wider variance in diet than purebreds.

[CAB]

Val's a Dobe/mix, isn't he? 

Yeah, he's part cat. He spent close to an hour cleaning himself tonight.

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[ella]

doesn't he wash Cocoa and Cocoa wash him? When I had two Brandon and Kelly they never washed themself it was always washing each other. It was like a daily thing.

[CAB]

doesn't he wash Cocoa and Cocoa wash him?

No, they don't wash one another.

[Stef]

Wes washes Tux. Tux does not wash Wes.

Wes will stand there and wash his eyes, clean out his ears and clean up the mess he makes when he sucks his flank. Funniest thing ever. (Mostly because Wes is a monstrous pain in the bum ... I can't articulate without probably offending everyone here - but he's so trying and it takes every ounce of patience I have some days...No labs or lab-xs ever again.)

[bumpster]

No wonder that Val always looks so sparkly clean!!

[Vicki_Wood]

Seems like most labs calm down around 4, whether they're neutered or not.