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#1 dayzimae

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 06:59 AM

I'm starting to have what may be a serious problem with Sophia. She has begun to be much more suspicious of people coming into the house, even people she has met before, and people we are obviously comfortable with. Beth and I don't get a lot of visitors, but most of the ones that we get are comfortable with dogs. The exception is my stepmother, although all my dogs have liked her, so she has been comfortable with my dogs. Sophia has seemed to accept her up to now.

About three weeks ago, four maybe, her suspicion turned to snapping. My daughter (mother of Lily) and her husband were visiting, and he was scratching Sophia's ears, something she adores. Suddenly she snarled and snapped at his hand. We disciplined her and settled her down, but the rest of their visit, she was very nervous of him, even though he is a dog person, Lily obviously loves him, we obvious accept him, etc., etc. Daddy reported he was standing and talking with somone outside who she had apparently accepted, someone once again who was petting her, when she did the same thing. Yesterday, she then did the same with with Marilyn, my stepmother, which is really distressing, since, although she is not out here daily, is here every other week or so, and is here for meals, etc., and I can't have this dog barking, growling and definately not snapping. She still loves my father, and she still loves the cleaning ladies, who come once weekly.

These people are not standing close to her food, and at the time of the incidents I mentioned it has not been like she is trying to get them to pet her instead of Lily. Neither Beth or I have been close to her either, at the time, so it is not like she is trying to protect us. Instead, they will be petting and scratching her in a way that she would normally like when she will suddenly snarl, snap, then leap back and start barking. I'll get a muzzle if I have to, but I would rather get to the bottom of the behavior and correct it.

What really worries me is that my sister, her husband, and my nephews 13 and 11, are coming in 3 weeks from Denmark. They have never met Sophia, obviously, since they only come every two years. They will be here for three weeks. Not only is Don male, which will make her more nervous, but he is a large very black man with a beard. Any suggestions besides drugging her (I did that with my mother's antisocial doxie) and getting a muzzle?
Rene (short for Marion Irene)

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#2 Bumpette

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 07:05 AM

Maybe she has an ear infection, or some other underlying health issue?
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#3 Diana

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 08:37 AM

Seeing this has just started happening, I would also check for health problems, ears, tooth, eye problem, especially since it seems to happen when being petted around the head area.
I once was bitten by a dog that knew me well and turned out he had a very infected tooth that was bothering him, once that was taken care of, things were back to normal.

Good luck and hope all is well soon.
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#4 doberpagegirl

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 02:19 PM

I have to agree. If the common denominator is petting her head/face, I would get her checked out to make sure it isn't medical.

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#5 dayzimae

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:16 AM

She doesn't bite when Beth, Daddy or I pet her, even quite vigorously, so I don't think it is that. I'll double check, but this seems to be specifically territorial type behavior.
Rene (short for Marion Irene)

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#6 dayzimae

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 08:37 AM

Well, Sophia is being put to the test right now. I have my sister, two nephews, brother-in-law all at the house, plus various other guests in and out. Of interest, she accepted my oldest daughter without turning a hair, and she has always accepted my younger daughter. She still is trying to bite my son in law if he tries to pet her, although not if he ignores her. After the first couple days she accepted my brother-in-law, which suprised me, as he is a very large very black man with a beard (although my father also has a beard) and a very deep voice. My sister is another story. Her voice sounds a lot like mine, so the first morning she went right up to her, but as soon as she realized Beth Ann wasn't me, she jumped back and began to bark wildly. After nearly a week, it is still the same, even though Beth Ann (an experienced dog person) doesn't challenge her and doesn't attempt to pet her, allowing Sophia to approach her and back off as she wishes. For awhile we thought she had accepted my oldest nephew, then last night she was laying on the couch next to him and snarled and nipped him totally unprovoked.

We have been giving her quarter doses of promace and using a muzzle on and off (can't leave it on all the time because of the heat -- she did collapse once because she couldn't pant). Sometimes she seems to even welcome it when she realizes she is out of control.

Any other suggestions? She is actually running up to my stepmother and nipping her, which is really distressing. Marilyn isn't a dog person at all, which is probably one reason Sophia does it.
Rene (short for Marion Irene)

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#7 CAB

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 09:30 AM

Glad to hear that Millie is a happy doggie -- and so beautiful, too! Took me forever to get Sophia to get up in bed with me! It's helpful in the winter when I have cold feet. :thumbsup: Many happy years ahead!

Get Sophia off the furniture. Sophia has exerted herself as alpha in your household and this is why she has started to nip/bite. Keep her on a short leash, don't give her any freedom, and start from scratch to reestablish your position as leader.
The embedded collars in his neck when we got him and he goes back and extends the gentle paw to the human race. One heck of a dog.

-Arda Barber

#8 Bumpette

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 09:38 AM

then last night she was laying on the couch next to him and snarled and nipped him totally unprovoked.

I agree with CAB, you need to keep Sophia off the furniture. It sounds like she has some dominance issues, and allowing her on the furniture is re-enforcing her dominance. I agree also with keeping her on a short 4-6 foot leash, until she learns how to behave. I know it a nuisance, but better to be a bit inconvenienced then to have her bite someone.
Happiness is a decision.

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#9 Arda

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 10:03 AM

WOW! Where did you learn all of that, CAB? I'm impressed! You are so right. WOW!
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

#10 Cheri

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 10:08 AM

We have been giving her quarter doses of promace and using a muzzle on and off (can't leave it on all the time because of the heat -- she did collapse once because she couldn't pant). Sometimes she seems to even welcome it when she realizes she is out of control.


I'm assuming you're using one of those nylon muzzles that fit snugly like a glove. While I agree the muzzle is a good idea under the circumstances, please consider buying one of those basket-type muzzles, like the ones they use on racing Greyhounds. They prevent biting but allow the dog to open it's mouth and pant. Sophia shouldn't be collapsing because she can't pant. Her health and possibly even her life could be endangered.

What I personally would do is not allow Sophia to be in a situation where she could possibly bite someone. It sounds like you have a house full of visitors right now, and she is okay with some of them but trying to bite others. Remove her from the situation. Put her in a crate or in another room where she does not have the opportunity to be close enough to anyone to bite. If she has to be in the same room as you and your guests, keep her on a leash, close to you. Give all your guests instructions like Cesar says, "No touch, no talk, no eye contact."

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#11 Nancy Robinson

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 10:20 AM

You are soooooooooooo right CAB, she has to find her position in the pack
again. You have to be Alpha and she has to know it :thumbsup:
I had a problem with my white shepherd mix, she had been
abused as a pup, when I got her she thought I was going
to be a piece of cake, didn't nip others just went after me
if I corrected her, so she learned real quick she was not
going to be the leader. We had a couple of very hard
months but she found out and the game was over. She
turned out to be as good as gold. If you let them get
away with things they will be running the house not
you. She was terrified of men and we got over that
as well. Work but it is all worth it in the end.

I just wanted to mention here, when training my dogs, I always
had them look me in the eye (not others because it is a challenge ti them)
and I always made them look away first. You are the leader and they
must know it. By them looking away first you are in charge, you are
Alpha over them. A strange dog no eye contact it is a challenge like I
said earlier.

Edited by Nancy Robinson, 07 July 2010 - 08:56 AM.

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#12 dobermidwife

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 02:52 PM

WOW! Where did you learn all of that, CAB? I'm impressed! You are so right. WOW!



Arda, we do listen to the Swamp Mama!!!

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#13 Arda

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 05:14 PM

Thank you!
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

#14 Diana

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 05:40 PM

I'm assuming you're using one of those nylon muzzles that fit snugly like a glove. While I agree the muzzle is a good idea under the circumstances, please consider buying one of those basket-type muzzles, like the ones they use on racing Greyhounds. They prevent biting but allow the dog to open it's mouth and pant. Sophia shouldn't be collapsing because she can't pant. Her health and possibly even her life could be endangered.

What I personally would do is not allow Sophia to be in a situation where she could possibly bite someone. It sounds like you have a house full of visitors right now, and she is okay with some of them but trying to bite others. Remove her from the situation. Put her in a crate or in another room where she does not have the opportunity to be close enough to anyone to bite. If she has to be in the same room as you and your guests, keep her on a leash, close to you. Give all your guests instructions like Cesar says, "No touch, no talk, no eye contact."

I agree with the others and getting back to basic's and establish who is the pack leader. I would also look into getting the Greyhound basket muzzle, that way they can breath good, drink water and yet not bite anyone.
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#15 bumpster

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 06:42 PM

Does she sleep in your bed? If so she needs to be moved out to a crate or dog bed. The Alpha doesn't share with the lower pack members.
You think dogs will not be in heaven?
I tell you, they will be there long before any of us.
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Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit,
you would stay out and your dog would go in.
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#16 Karen A

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:26 PM

Sophia is confused on her place in the pack. By giving her alpha status (bed and couch privileges) you are forcing her to defend her place as what she perceives is above all others.....especially those that are not dog saavy. A child especially may put their face into hers or worse yet do it while they are on the couch together and get bit. It would be a heavy price to pay for all....a scar to look at forever, an embarrassed owner, and a dog's life. Dogs seek leadership.....her feelings won't be hurt if you put her on a nice, soft dog bed on the floor next to her alpha leader :thumbsup: . She will have peace knowing her place and what is expected of her instead of having to make choices for herself and deciding who should be bit and who can live :flower: . I know it 's hard not to spoil them, but for her sake, start from scratch with her and keep her off the furniture, use the crate, and use the "nothing in life is free" rule in your household. I would also incorporate your family in her feeding and giving her commands and treats for good behavior. Good luck!
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#17 dayzimae

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 06:59 PM

Thanks for the feedback. We'll see what we see here. When I get to town again, we'll definately look into a different muzzle, although we've had to use in less in the last day as she has become more and more used to the crowd.
Rene (short for Marion Irene)

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#18 DobRescuer

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 05:18 AM

I am intrigued at Sophie's behaviour which for what I gather is just starting to come to light. I have a lot of questions but am also very sure that her problem has nothing to do with the scratching. Do the people she is snapping at have pets of their own? Do they work with leather gloves or any type of gloves even for golf? Anyone of them is using chemicals or any type of liquid which may be staying in their hands or body? I ask these questions because as we know Dobermans have a really keen sense of smell. I had a female Doberman (Phoebe) who liked to smell our grocery bags before we took them inside. She was a rescue and was never trained to smell or search. Yet on one ocassion she was barking, snarling and almost attacking one of our grocery bags which contained frozen vegetables. About two days later Kroger's Supermarket had a recall on black eyed peas which were contaminated with Salmonela. We had not touched the content of the bag due to Phoebe's reaction. Needless to say she saved our lives and was never trained to do so. I believe that there has to be a common smell that your Doberman is matching to which is driving her nutty. Hope this helps.




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