126 replies to this topic

[Arda]

I want to talk turkey with anyone that has had an ACL surgery.
What did it cost you?
Did it benefit the dog or just you?
How did the dog get along before?
How does he get along now?

We have an 11 month old pup here who is in sad shape. His name is Biscuit. He's a mess. First the femoral ball is out of the socket and needs to be removed. That I have a quote for and is expensive but not unattainable. But then the ACL needs attention. I want all of you to know that it was recommended to remove the whole leg. I'm sorry. I just can't do it as a cost cutting measure. If we do that, someone other than me will have to do the rehab for him as there is too many healthy Dobes here and I fear that he would get hurt from the rough housing that goes on here.

I really need your input on this little guy. Attitude is coming around nicely. Several girls at the clinic are giving him special time and there is much improvement.

This little guy has never had a normal life. PLEASE talk to me. I need your input.

[LuvmydobeApollo]

wow Arda that is a tough one.. i have not had any dogs with acl tears before so i dont know as far as being an owner goes.. but ive seen alot at the clinic... It is expensive... you know that...if untreated they can develop bad arthritis and he is a young dog with a long life ahead of him.. so he could possibly end up with crippling arthritis before he is middle aged. or less... its a hard call,, if y ou had someone to rehab him.. gosh i think i would go for the amputation... i so wish i could help you, but i have my house and hands full here... AND the fact that he is going to have the FHO surgery for the femoral head and ball... amputation would cover 2 birds with one stone.............

sharen

[ohiodobe]

I had the surgery on my Micky in 2003. He did great but ate out the stitches and staples 5 times so it was $125 each restitch. I was working at the time and this was my determined lick granuloma guy. Rehab is crate rest (a must for a good outcome) There are different types of surgery one involves the screw and wire. The newer ways are better. The cause of the tear is also important. If it was torn playing or agility it is likely to happen to the other side. This is probably not the case with your boy as the the femoral ball issue probably was the cause of the tear as he was not moving properly. ACL's have good outcomes without surgery depending on how bad it is. They use crate rest and NSAID's. Is there a possibility SND can help with the cost? Mine was around $500 til we added the restitches (most wouldn't have a knucklehead like Mick)Too bad there isn't a quiet foster to take him. I wonder how much we could raise here with a donation drive. Not really a question yet. Good luck with this poor baby. He will need that and many prayers. Linda

[yahoosmom]

This is what Eric had done, it was $2000 plus any problem that came up with him. We had tp get a Great Dane crate because you can't get then in and out of a reguiar crate.
They can't turn around with the E collar on. Just a mess. After 3 months of 24hour care we had to put him down becuase he never healed and they wanted to do another surgery with
no guarantee that it would work. Poor Eric went through so much and only got worse. I wish I would of never done it. Poor Eric just wouldn't
leave his knee alone with the stiches in it, no matter what we did to try and stop him.
But I know lot of people have had good luck with the surgery. My sisters dog had both of her knees done and she is fine that was over $10,000.
This is a young dog so I would think he would have a better chance at everything going alright. Yes it is a FULL TIME job keeping them calm while recovering.
Good Luck in what ever you decide to do.

[Nancy Robinson]

I will talk turkey to ya Arda

My Mateese, my GSD tore hers. She was VERY LARGE 125-129lbs her
entire life. I had the best surgeon in Ann Arbor, this was back in
1995 the cost then was $900.00.

Before surgery she could not put weight on that leg, held it up.
After the surgery she was like new.........................no problem at
all. The important part is the post op, keep them quiet. At that
time they put a wrap on that entire leg, very important that wrap
stays put. The wrap must stay on 6 weeks...............after that
limit exercise for another 3 or 4 weeks...........very important.
While they are recovering they seem to know, they can handle
it. I was worried the other one would go, but it did not.

Now if she would not have had the surgery the outcome would not
have been good. I repeat after the surgery and the post op time
the recovery......................................she was like new. The RECOVERY
TIME IS MOST IMPORTANT.............................MOST IMPORTANT.

[Nancy Robinson]

I also wanted to add Mateese was not a real young dog at the
time, she was around 5yrs, but I had her another almost 5yrs,
just like new. This is common in large breeds and she was
size LARGE. All they have to do is jump just right, run or
whatever and it happens.

I cannot stress enough recovery time is soooooooooooo IMPORTANT.

[Ken]

I can't answer to the ACL but I will add my 2 cents for the Femoral Head Osectomy. Bandi had severe arthritis in her left ball socket due to, we suspected, being hit by a car or something. The socket was visibly deformed. She favored that leg and sometimes would pull up yelping and holding the leg up in the air. Hip replacement at MSU was out of the question and probably couldn't have been done anyway due to the deformity. NSAIDs would help but only for so long since it would only get worse with time and then what? I consulted with my old vet in Colorado who specialized in osteopathy (if that is the right term) and decided to have the FHO done. She recovered quickly and didn't fuss with the stitches at all (thank God).

Lessons learned:

1. The success of the FHO depends to a large part on the experience of the vet doing the FHO. The best I could do here was "about a half dozen" FHOs so that means actually 4 or 5. I should have taken her to Colorado. If I knew in advance how quickly she would have been ambulatory I would have taken her there. Being closer to a major metro area you should easily be able to find someone with a lot of experience. Do NOT take it to any vet who tells you after the surgery that she, basically, was in way over her head and "sweated the procedure" (her words) the entire time. Would have been nice to know that in time to call it off and go somewhere else.

2. The larger the dog, the less the odds of a great outcome. Bandi did OK but she always favored that leg and the muscle tissue atrophied over time. However she didn't have any of the leg-lifting, yelping attacks of pain anymore so that is a partial success.

3. Post-operative rehabilitation is very important and will take some commitment. They gave me a few exercises to do every day but the total improvement got her to about where she was prior to the FHO (minus the acute pain attacks). Maybe that was the best that could be obtained. No way to tell now.

So, do I think today that I made the right choice? Yes, absolutely. Even though the end result wasn't all that I hoped it would be it was still better than doing nothing and way better than not having a leg at all.

Count me in for a donation to the FHO fund if you decide to do it.

Ken

FHO for a Dobermann is a crap shoot but it has to be better than the alternative of having no leg at all.

[Nancy Robinson]

The vet who did the surgery on Mateese is still
in practice and he has remained my vet thru the
years, he is WONDERFUL, known as the Ortho
man, also truly compassionate. Mateese was huge
and due to his experience and my post op care
like I said she was like new, would I have done it
again.......YOU BET.

[Annie Moon]

My friend's dog had both legs done a couple years apart.
A Vet in Clare (Michigan) did the surgery. The results were excellent.
Her dog is big, a lab/golden mix. The worst part was keeping the dog quiet during the recovery period.
I have a call in to her to get more info. In the meantime here's a link that might be of assistance. http://tiggerpoz.com/

[doberpagegirl]

I don't know anything about either surgery. I've looked up some stories on line of Dobes with both successful and unsuccessful ACL surgeries. It's hard to compare this to those stories though, because this boy has the messed up hip on top of it. Would they do one surgery, then the other, or both at the same time?

[Annie Moon]

Just talked to friend... she said with the first surgery the Vet had to scrape the meniscus out because it was a mess. Since the dog (Peanut) was under anesthesia longer the cost was almost 1100. He told her at the time that in 90% of the cases the other
knee will need repair. Sure enough it did... That surgery was 900. which included 3 follow up visits.
She is very pleased with the results.

Hope this helps.

add: I know several three legged dogs that get around just fine.

[Diana]

Coming in late on this conversation, so can't add too much, but also stress how important the recovery time is, and very hard to keep these active Dobes quiet. My guy got very depressed being confined, he stopped eating, lost a lot of weight, until we finally decided to let him do normal activity to a point, and that was a turn around for him, he came in the house, jumped on his couch, laid down and was good to go from there. One issue we had was he wouldn't or couldn't sit, always would stand, the vet could find no reason that he couldn't bend his knee to sit.
My cost was around $500, this was several years ago, so things could be a lot higher now.

I would not do a amputation of a rear leg, very hard for them to get up and down on their own, not to mention relieving themselves is hard when missing a rear leg, front legs are a different story, they seem to adapt better.

Good luck with any decision you make for this guy.

[Arda]

Thanks everyone. I'm rolling all of this around in my head. This would be two totally separate surgeries. I'm scared to death. I want to make the right decision and I don't think there really is one. Amputation just turns my heart and stomach upside down. I have seen a lot of dogs with a missing front leg but very few with the missing back leg. I know that is the cheaper way out BUT what if the dog is like Arda and can fight as hard as I did. He should have the chance. If I'm wrong I have to look at all of you and say "OOP's, I made a mistake". I don't want to have to do that. Will let everyone know by Tuesday. Wish I just had a few days to think about nothing but this but unfortunately That will never happen here. I couldn't even help Linda and JackAE clean today. Been a couple bad weeks here at the swamp.
One better note.....Fuzz E is HEART WORM NEGATIVE!
Biscuit's temperament is improving at the clinic.
Ruggins is ready to find a home.
Arda is tired.

[Nancy Robinson]

Arda, I agree with the amputation thing makes my "heart and stomach"
sick too.

Do not worry about us, you do whatever you think is best.
If you would like me to check with my vet as far as the surgeries,
let me know. I would trust my life with him.

[Joaquin]

Hang in there lady. All things in their own time....or something profound like that.

[doberpagegirl]

Here's a picture of little Biscuit.

 Biscuit.JPG   44.67KB   10 downloads

The little guy has NO use of the leg right now. I can't even believe Dr.K got him to put it down for this picture. Arda had to basically carry his butt wrapped in a towel while I "walked" his front half to get him into the house when he came in. He was obviously in pain.

[Arda]

I don't think the picture shows it like I saw it. The femoral head sticks up further than the hip itself. There is no muscle in that leg. Only the skin over the bone. But look at that scared little face. That really gets me. Well we are going ahead of the femoral head removal and get that healed up before going on. That is sometime this week. A round of prayers PLEASE.

[Nancy Robinson]

OMG I have tears.

You my boy have every prayer I can PRAY, you
also have as many HUGS as I can send.

I am sorry for you sweetpea.

PRAYING FOR A GREAT OUTCOME AND A SPEEDY RECOVERY....
WE LOVE YOU.

PRAYERS for you too Arda along with HUGS

"GOD BLESS YOU and I KNOW YOU WILL BE KEPT IN
THOSE POWERFUL HANDS OF GOD"

[Diana]

Sending lots of prayers for this sweet guy, looks like quite a love, poor thing. You can see the extra weight on his "good" leg, even though he is sort of standing on the bad leg. You might be surprised after the first surgery and how much that even helps him. One step at a time.

[Karen A]

That picture is heartbreaking . My Raven had ACL surgery back in 2002 at MSU and it cost us $1600. She lived for 3 weeks afterward and dropped dead in our backyard. At the time, I knew very little about DCM and anesthesia in dobermans, but now I think it's what led her her death. She was older, about 8, and never showed any signs of a problem, but when she started limping, I didn't hesitate to go ahead with the surgery since she lived to fetch balls. Keeping her contained afterward and getting her muscle tone back safely was a full time job. She seemed to recover well and I don't remember her showing signs of pain. Biscuit is obviously too young for DCM and his age may help him recover quickly. On the other hand, I don't object to amputation either, except for the fact that he might have a hard time getting up. If it relieved his pain, I'd be all for that option. He just looks miserable. I hope it all works out well