Fearful behavior Options

[KhellendrosXS]

Lately Kiera has been cowering.

Im pretty sure it has to do with being bathed and having her nails clipped but I could use some advice.

We try and give both dogs a bath and do the nails on the same day. Sarah usually holds her during the nail clipping (shes deathly afraid of the dremel so we dont even try that anymore) and feeds her treats after each nail gets clipped. Shes very good about accepting them. Then its bath time. As soon as we towel her off and put her collar back on its boom....off the the crate where she wont come out unless its time for dinner. Then she sulks around and gets all droopy headed when I walk past. What can we do? Is this just situational feer that needs to be de-sensatized or are we looking at a bigger problem?

Her obedience needs a lot of work. She hasnt figured out anything but 'sit' and 'sit stay' at this point. Weve got some great advice from Gardner but come, down and heel are not in her play book. This is especially frustrating when we let her out and she wont come back in. Im thinking we need to go back to the out on a leash method and limit the playtime to indoors until the obedience issue is sorted out.

Last question. How much and how rough should playtime be? Kiera usually starts by nibbling on Metros ears until he opens his mouth and starts whining. They dance around each other for a while and end up tussling and then they stop for a rest. In about 5 minutes they are back at it again. Should I be limiting this?




Doggies should come with instructions.

[Nancy Robinson]

HOPE YOU DON'T GET THIS TWICE, MY COMPUTER JUST KICKED ME OUT

I can only speak from my experience.

Maybe try a good trainer, a behavior class.

I can only speak from my ordeal with Hunter after I was broken into. They branded him
under his chin with something I believe something from the stove. I could not even
go near the stove and he would hide. I took him to a class to get his confidence
back and it did seem to help, although he never got over the stove. He would
hear the click of the knob of the stove being turned on and he was gone.
It was the first time in my entire life I felt violent, how dare they come into
my home and hurt my dogs..............................
It takes work and a bunch of patience.

Schauden and Hunter used to play, Schaudeh is a rough neck. They never fought
just played but when it became to rough I stopped it immediately.

This post has been edited by Nancy Robinson: Feb 28 2010, 02:15 PM

[Bumpette]

We learned a tip in obedience class that we found that really works well for Liddy. We have a clip that looks like a leash clasp, except it is made of plastic, we tie a 5 foot piece of cotton clothesline rope tied to the clip and put it on her collar. It is super lightweight so she doesn't really even know she is wearing it, but it gives us something to step on if we need to 'catch' her. Anytime Liddy is out of her crate, she is wearing it. We call it her string-of-bravery, when she is wearing it she isn't nearly afraid of us/things. I don't know if it would help Kiera or not, but it would be worth trying.

[doberpagegirl]

I was going to suggest the same thing as Lori. Have her drag a long line. The dog should not have the option of disobeying. Set her up for success by making it impossible for her NOT to obey. When we first learned "come" in our obedience class, we would have a long line on, and call them then tug on the line. When they do come to you PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE!! Soon she will learn that "coming" to you is the best thing in the world.

As for how rough, mine come in with scratch marks from each other, and they get pretty rough. We let them unless body language changes or someone snarls, etc. I would say that is up to you. If they are being rougher than you are comfortable with, then they must stop. Just like parents, when they can't stand the kids screaming anymore than it is enough.

[dayzimae]

I have yet to meet a dog of mine that actually enjoyed a bath, no matter how gentle the experience. Even my dogs who love to swim hate a bath. Even though it an expense, perhaps taking her to a groomer for awhile, to disassociate you from the act of washing and toe-nail clipping might be helpful.

As for coming, -- all of my dogs have always thought that "come" was an optional command. Even when they have been to obedience, they manage to disassociate the command from when they are working in that context and when they are doing interesting things out on the farm, when come happens only if the treat I have in my hand is more interesting than the whatever they are after.

[KhellendrosXS]

Thank you for the replies so far. I know we should be hooking her up to a line for the running around problem. I'll be looking into some of that rope at lowes today. we had tried the leash but every time she moved you could see the fear. That might also be from when she got a blanket snagged in her collar.

[Arda]

Just a little bit of old wisdom. Don't try to over work the fear. Sometimes it is better to ignore those fears and let them go away on their own instead of trying to cure the fears. An example to this is Diamond and Saffire. 8 weeks old when we got them. We could not touch them. No way were they going to walk on a leash. To get them up stairs was impossible. I just left them alone. All of a sudden it was their idea to come up stairs. And it was their idea to walk on a leash. And it was their idea to be the welcoming committee for everyone that comes in here. Of course I get the credit and they get the goodies and there was no training session to it. They worked themselves through it all. Stretch and Rudy were the same way. And now Karma and Kissie are working through it. They are Dobermanns and they like to be in control of themselves. Karma and Kissie have new words to work with. "Cookie Time" means "COME". They don't know it yet but they are learning and I haven't had to knock them silly.

[Nancy Robinson]

I guess I got off on a "wild streak" here when it came to the
fear part. Arda is right, Schaudeh came around on her
own, but Hunter was completely traumatized and I
wanted him to get some of his confidence back so I did
seek help with him. He came around on everything but
the stove. Bless his heart.

People think in my area this doesn't happen, well I have news
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE.

This post has been edited by Nancy Robinson: Mar 1 2010, 04:55 PM

[Joaquin]

How much socialization is she getting? Walks? Rides? Store trips? Our Bailey was decently shy when we got her and we of course took her to basic and advance obedience more so for the socialization than anything. You have to work your dogs every day to train and even afterward a few minutes every now and then to maintain that training.

For Bailey's training the instructor stressed the point to train in an area filled with distractions and one day going to the grocery store it hit me......there is no place more scary and filled with distractions than a grocery store. So I started to take her to Krogers to train everyday. The carts banging around, cars, people, kids and of course her nemesis.....the automatic doors! We made it our goal to walk by those doors without her freaking out and breaking her heal and eventually she did it. Now of course she tried to run for the hills a couple times in the beginning but shrugging it off and not making a big deal about it let her get over it faster. Not to mention distracted, busy and tired dogs are better behaved dogs. Good luck, keep us posted.

[yahoosmom]

I never thought about taking them to a store. Good idea I think I will try this.
Thanks for that advise Joaquin I know this isn't about Eric but I like the information.
Good luck with Kiera

[Arda]

I know most of you don't remember Bubbles as a pup.....but.......He would not walk on a leash. No way. Laid right down and there he stayed. I ignored him and dragged him along instead of trying to work it out of him. He will never be an obedience dog but I can get him in and out of the vet's office and that's all that matters in his little life. He will not walk past a mop pail. Don't over do some of these fears just act like they are not there. All of a sudden they get into the program and there is no real reason way. They just do it. J has the patience and the BRAIN to be on top of his kids.

[Bumpette]

So I started to take her to Krogers to train everyday.

They let you take Bailey into the grocery store?! How cool is that? If we tried to take one of our puplets into a store up here, we would probably be tazed. We can only take them into the pet supply store, but that is in Traverse City, and it is about an hour away.

[yahoosmom]

I think he only took them out side the store by the doors and where people
were walking with the carts.

[jmnodwell]

probably not it but you can work on the sidewalk... We used to bell ring for the Salvation Army outside of Wal-Mart... That is a great place to train because of so much "traffic" both cars and foot along with all the distractions...

I worked with Bella when she was extremely dog aggressive... We started about 100 feet from the Petsmart entrance and when she stopped reacting, we progressively moved closer and closer...

do check out Home Depot. I've heard you can take dogs in there and did see one once, and Lowe's may have a similar policy... and then most pet stores like Petsmart, Petco, and Pet Supplies Plus...

as for the "Come" command, for my dogs it is not an option... and while I train it with lots of praise and happy voice in the beginning, I also train it with me angry yelling at them, screaming at them, etc. I want them to come no matter what they think my mood is or how much potential trouble they are in... They still get the praise and cookie when they get to me...

and no off-leash until I know they will come... even in the yard... Beau had a really hard time with that, on leash in the fenced in back yard...

[Nancy Robinson]

All of my dogs were trained with hand signals along with voice. They did very well
with both. It takes patience and being consistent. (Hunter was only fearful after
the incident) I never could get him over the stove deal and I did not push it.
He still knew his commands and he did them he got his confidence back.

When I had my German Shepherd I used to take her to the mall, stores
you name if. Schaudeh and Hunter the same thing. Socialization
when young is very important, even older. Different sounds, sights
whatever really helps. Socialization is a big thing, commands are
another. I could point to the ground and my dogs would lay down,
Schaudeh still does, I could hold my hand up and they would stay,
I could make a gesture and they would come, another gesture
and they would stay.

Also a whole lot of PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE

This post has been edited by Nancy Robinson: Mar 5 2010, 11:41 AM

[Karen A]

Whatever you do, don't coddle her when she is fearful. Just ignore it and carry on. I would suggest getting her out more....try Lowe's or Home Depot too. They are usually dog friendly, but ask first. I would take my new adoptees to a small town called Milford that has a lot of street cafes, people traffic, sidewalks close to the street, even a train tressle. People would always ask to pet and I just told them they were in training and to touch them all over. They got used to the sounds of cars and trucks and how they could pass by and we managed to survive it all . Take them as many places as you can find and stimulate, stimulate, stimulate! Pretty soon they will be as mellow as Ruby....I can practically run the vacuum right over her. Nothing fazes her.

[Nancy Robinson]

Whatever you do, don't coddle her when she is fearful. Just ignore it and carry on. I would suggest getting her out more....try Lowe's or Home Depot too. They are usually dog friendly, but ask first. I would take my new adoptees to a small town called Milford that has a lot of street cafes, people traffic, sidewalks close to the street, even a train tressle. People would always ask to pet and I just told them they were in training and to touch them all over. They got used to the sounds of cars and trucks and how they could pass by and we managed to survive it all . Take them as many places as you can find and stimulate, stimulate, stimulate! Pretty soon they will be as mellow as Ruby....I can practically run the vacuum right over her. Nothing fazes her.

AMEN